I’m getting a bit fed up with the entire pointless bullshit gay debate in the US (and a few other countries as well). People are calling for or against gay rights, gay marriage, gay adoption, gay whatever. Cut it out. I mean it. NOW! Let me break this down.
Any gay person (male or female) demanding gay rights is a complete and utter IDIOT. There, I’ve said it. Why are these people idiots? Because they are demanding something they already have. Almost every country in the world has gay rights. You know what gay rights are? Gay rights are that you are a second rate citizen, you can’t do the stuff most heterosexuals are allowed to do and that you’ll just have to accept it because only you and a few liberal heterosexuals are in favor of change. So, if you are going to demand anything, demand EQUAL RIGHTS, you moron.
Another gay thing that gets me all worked up is the utter stupidity of gay marriage, something most of the Christian shitkickers (take a seat, I’ll get to you later) are opposing right now. Any gay wanting gay marriage is in IDIOT. Why? Because the term ‘gay marriage’ implies that two gay people getting married is or should be different from two heterosexuals getting married. In any case, it is going to take years - if not decades - before you get your wish and if you do, they’ll be serving you a cheap knockoff of a heterosexual marriage with a lot less rights. And if you dare to say at that point in time “Hey, this is not what we wanted!”, they’ll say “You wanted gay marriage, here it is. Stop complaining, you fag!”
What you want is them to stop restricting marriage! If marriage is legally only possible between a man and a woman, technically it is restricted. This restriction needs to go; nothing more, nothing less. Any two consenting adults (who are not closely related) should be able to get married and enjoy the same rights as any other two (random) consenting married adults. It is that frelling easy. Don’t demand gay marriage, demand UNRESTRICTED MARRIAGE (between two consenting adults).
Last thing I really can’t stand about the whole gay issue is going to piss off a few people, but I’m going to vent it anyway… I can’t stand people who think being gay is a lifestyle. If you Google for “Gay Pride” images, most of the stuff you see is half-dressed men and women, dressing up, showing the world how fucking great they think they are. It is these people who are hurting the ‘gay cause’ more then all the Bible-quoting asswhips put together. Why? Because you are showing the world that you are very different.
Don’t get me wrong. I greatly value individuality and I try to teach my children to be whoever they want to be and not try to be what other people want them to be. But if you parade yourself in public in silly clothes (and only very few of them) you are telling everyone “This is what being gay is all about!” And this way, you fortify almost every single prejudice people hold concerning gay individuals. You are giving people who are against EVER giving you EQUAL RIGHTS enough ammo to last them a lifetime of arguing gay people are filthy, sexually perverted, morally repulsive and downright disgusting.
Being gay is not a choice or a lifestyle (one generally chooses a certain lifestyle); it is normal, natural and there is nothing wrong with being gay. Show the whole world the truth; that gay people are completely normal people, like everyone else, except for the fact that they happen to be attracted to people of the same gender, in stead of the opposite gender. What I would like to see - and I firmly believe this will have a more positive impact to the ’cause’ then all the Gay Pride gatherings you have right now, is a demonstration (of thousands and thousands) of completely ‘normal’ looking people, demanding EQUAL RIGHTS. Picture a demonstration against war, poverty, or an issue like that, keep the people you see in mind and swap the signs saying “Stop the war!” with “Equal Rights for Gay’s”. That is what it should look like. If you would do that, it would be harder for people who are against you, to point at you and say you are immoral and perverted. Because now you look like the man or woman from across the street in stead of a half naked idiot with “gay = cool” written across the bare chest. You’ll never win over the hardcore gay-hating Christians, but if you win over the rest of those against you, you’re only small step away from getting what you should have; equal rights.
Now for the Christians reading this… GROW UP! What two people of consenting age are doing in the privacy of their own bedroom is none of your business. Gayness is not about sex. It’s not about men sticking his Johnson into another man’s dung-hole. It’s not about women licking each other’s happy place. It is about all the same things any relationship is about, with the difference that it is between two people that are the same gender.
And there is nothing, absolutely nothing sacred about marriage. Unions between two people were not invented along with the Bible and took they place in many (not based on the Abrahamic religions) cultures - and still do. The only sacred thing about it is the pledge between two people - any two people - who proclaim their love to one another and vow (to try) to live together the rest of their natural life, and God has nothing to do with that. And if marriage is that sacred, why do so many (Christan) couples in the Western world get divorced? If marriage is so sacred, why do so many (Christans) cheat on their partner during their marriage?
Being gay is not a disease. It is not a psychological problem. Not every gay person has AIDS (actually, more heterosexuals than gay people have AIDS). Not every gay person is a child molester (in fact, unless I am mistaken, most child molesters are straight). Curing gay people from being gay is bogus. Any gay person claiming to be cured has simply been chased back into the closet by Christians who are - as I can only imagine that to be the root of their problem with gay people - insecure about their own sexuality and will most likely be miserable for the rest of his/her fake-heterosexual life. And as I stated earlier; BEING GAY IS NOT ABOUT SEX… IT IS ABOUT LOVE.
There you have it; gay people should cut the ‘extravagant lifestyle’ bullshit, religious nutjobs should leave them alone and give them equal rights in all aspects of life.
Now shut up and do what I tell you. It’s for the best. Seriously.
9 responses so far ↓
sengdroma // April 24, 2008 at 11:58
I agree with you, unfortunately in today’s PC world freedom of speech is mearly a figment of one’s imagination. Voice an opinion that goes against the populus grain and you can now get put in prison.
Gayness should not be about being different and standing out (this is what gets up most people’s noses), but that is how it is seen. It’s because it’s a LABEL. And once you have a label stuck to you they are hard to remove. You do not see “straight” people celebrating their “straightness”, no they just get on with life, which is hard enough at times without being labelled.
You sum it up well when you state that it is equality that should be sought. Nothing more and nothing less.
When I have spoken to “gay” people they have agreed with me but admit that the fanatics do get the tv coverage and in turn highlight their cause.
RamblinDad // April 24, 2008 at 12:29
You make very good points and I agree with most. I say most because I agree with all the statements you made about gay people. Fight for equal rights and restriction free marriage. Stop the gay rights and gay marriage diatribe. You are people and should have the legal rights of people in this country. Fight for them and not for something unique or special, just equal.
What I do not agree with you is your general labeling of Christians, of which I am one. Many people that are Christian would disagree with what you say and call me a heretic for agreeing, but that does not mean that all do, or that they are right. Many people who are Christian would also agree with you. Those that hate gay people and say they are not or can not be Christian are like those fairies that dress up, down, or off for the gay pride parades and make asses of themselves. Both give there respective representations a bad name. It is up to god to judge, not man, and especially not man using man’s skewed interpretation of the Bible.
greymalkin // April 24, 2008 at 13:20
RamblinDad: Whenever I rant about “Christian shitkickers”, you can be sure I am referring to the Christians who want nothing more then to impose their ideas on what the world should look like on everyone else (including more moderate Christians who want nothing to do with these idiots). Whether it is teaching ID as an alternative to the Theory of Evolution (which is like offering cow shit as an alternative to a steak in restaurant) or quoting the Bible to justify their opinions on (and actions towards) gay people, abortion, other races, etc. etc.
From your post, I assume that this does not include you. So I am generalizing, but I’m generalizing a very specific close-minded group of bigots that gives no respect, demands plenty of it and therefore, I refuse to give them any until they start deserving it.
So I hope you don’t feel offended by my words, since they definitely were not aimed at you and those like you. Christians like you are capable of reasonable dialog (which I welcome), the Christians I despise generally are not.
Tony // April 24, 2008 at 15:36
This makes my blood boil!
Ok. Lets go for it. here’s my response to his post
“Gay Rights” is a phrase mostly used by the right wingers. They use this phrase, rather than the one GLBT people use - “Equal Rights” - to fool people. It’s quite effective. It fooled Greymalkin, Sengdroma, and Ramblindad.
Marriage is something you do in a church. It’s called a “Civil Partnership” in Europe and it’s registered through the local community via the Registry Office. It’s the same place you go to register deaths and births. They run a great service with rooms available and totally non-deist ceremony. But when you run a political campaign you always have to ask for more than you want. That’s why there has been almost no problem with church groups in, for exaple, the UK.
Oh yes, and unless you are a fag don’t use the word. It’s the same rule that applies to white people and the “N” word, men with the “B” and “C” words and Jews with the “K” word - and one day (we hope) by Christians with the “C” word.
So I google for images of “Gay Lifestyle.” What do I get? The first six pages are nothing like what you describe. The few “ half-dressed men and women” are magazine covers.
What Greymalkin is asking me to be is AVERAGE. Well, dammit, I’m not. Normal? That’s just creepy!
Parading in silly clothes is what the Irish do on St. Patrick’s day, South Americans do at Mardi Gras, and Straight people do at Weddings. Gay people do it at Pride.
Stop asking me to be like you. I won’t do it. I could, but I won’t.
Lets try cutting out the word “Gay” and replacing it with “Black” shall we? No, lets not. It would be wicked.
I don’t want to “ win over the hardcore gay-hating Christians…” I want my rights! I want people like you, all of you, to march with us instead of sitting on the sidelines “tut-tutting” and saying “If only they could be more like us!”
You’re good people! Try and accept and celebrate diversity not just similarity.
So, let me deal with the concluding paragraph.
…”gay people should cut the ‘extravagant lifestyle’ bullshit, religious nutjobs should leave them alone and give them equal rights in all aspects of life.”
Part A “…gay people should cut the ‘extravagant lifestyle’ bullshit…” NO WAY!
Part B “… religious nutjobs should leave them alone and give them equal rights in all aspects of life.” NO WAY! Religious nutjobs can’t give me any rights. They’re mine already. When they try and take them away I demonstrate, march, prevent them any way I can.
By myself if I have to. In business suit at Congress, in a swim suit at the beach, in jeans at the universities, in a green jumpsuit on St. Patrick’s day , dressed up like a chicken at Mardi Gras and n a tuxedo at my civil partnership.
You’re invited.
Nobody’s There… » Blog Archive » A Blood Boiling Invitation // April 24, 2008 at 15:42
[...] at Eating Fish has posted a long diatribe about GLBT [...]
greymalkin // April 25, 2008 at 10:11
… and everyone else. Let’s see what we can do about it so the ‘equal rights’ phrase comes out on top. Plus I really have heard quite a few gay people talk about ‘gay rights’.
I was married in City Hall, to my wife, and God was not invited (I’m agnostic, my wife practiced modern witchcraft). At least in the Netherlands, marriage is not something you exclusively can do in a church. In fact, only getting married in a church doesn’t make the marriage legal. Church is only a symbolic marriage to Dutch law. Only the marriage in City Hall (through the Registry Office) is legal in the Netherlands. And thankfully, any two consenting adults are allowed to get married. The Netherlands was - unless I’m mistaken - the first country to drop restrictions on marriage. And I’m proud of that fact. More countries should follow our lead.
I don’t use the word, and I didn’t use it in my post. Well, once, but in a sentence uttered by a Christian zealot. So technically, it wasn’t me saying it, but the zealot. Furthermore, I strongly feel that context determines whether or not a word is offensive, not a word on it’s own. I’ve called gay friends ‘fag’ (or at least the Dutch equivalent of it) but in a way we could both laugh about it, and in a way they didn’t mind (and I don’t call gay people ‘gay’ all the time; being gay to me is really only a sexual preference). I would never use it as in insult.
Really? I had at least 3 rather extravagant looking pictures on my first page (with that search). Oh, and this picture, which really scared the shit out of me.
I don’t remember asking you - or anyone else - to be average. I hate average. Average is… average. I inspire my kinds to go beyond average, but I’m not telling them to push the limits to shock the crap out of small-minded people (of which there are a lot and they generally keep the politicians in office that block equal rights initiatives). I think the fact that I’m teaching them to actually use their brain is shocking enough for most people they’ll meet in the many years to come.
Okay, good argument. I’m not against the silly clothes, more the nudity. Hell, I’m not even against nudity; a pair of breasts or a guy with a piece of leader in front of his manly parts won’t shock me (I’m Dutch) but it shocks the crap out of the people that want to deny you your rights.
If you were like me, you’d be a widower with 5 kids in his early thirties. I would never ask you - or anyone else - to be that. Or in your case, even worse; ask you to be straight. No, I want you to be gay, happy, married, divorced, adopting kids, and so on. My point is; I want you to have the same rights as anyone else. But you catch more flies with honey then with vinegar (which was kind of the point of my rant).
Black people generally have more rights in many countries than gay people. They can get married, adopt children, etc. Except black gay people of course.
You won’t win them over. And you know it. They can’t see your point because they are staring at scripture too much. Their brain has shut down and getting it to start up again is a near-impossible task. But you should have your rights. If there is a demonstration of gay people demanding equal rights, I’ll march with you and I’ll even bring the kids (it’ll be a good lesson for them).
By saying we are saying “If only they could be more like us!”, aren’t you saying there is a ‘you’ and an ‘us’? That you’re different? I don’t get that. The only difference between you and me on a (let’s call it a) biological level is you are attracted to men and I’m attracted to women. The lifestyle thing is a choice. You were not born with a lifestyle, it’s not in your genes. You were born with a sexual preference (and so was I - just like any human being). The lifestyle is something that you - and everyone else - choose. And the point I was trying to get across was that although you have the right to choose a lifestyle, it is not something that automatically comes with being gay. But it is associated with ‘gayness’ by certain individuals and used against you. Deny them additional ammo.
I accept and celebrate both. And thanks. You are good people too (at least in my book).
Okay, let me rephrase: “Some gay people should stop trying to give people the idea that being gay and having an extravagant lifestyle is mutually exclusive (and the media should portrait that better also).
So you are saying you are not treated like a second rate citizens and you enjoy all the legal rights a heterosexual man has? I wish it was true, but I doubt it. These rights should be yours already, but the governments need to put it in writing and make it law. Religious nutjobs don’t want that and that group needs to shut the hell up and let the governments do what they should have done a very long long time ago; equal rights for everyone - including a total disregard for sexual preference.
I’ll skip St. Patrick’s Day and Mardi Gras, but I’d love to see you in a tuxedo, swimsuit, jeans or suit.
By your comment, I’m assuming (possibly falsely, so correct me if I am wrong) you do dress up in extravagant ways at Gay Pride. My question to you is; do you do that because you are gay and your genes are ‘forcing’ you to do that, or do you do that because you enjoy it and it fits the lifestyle you have chosen?
And thank you for commenting and sharing your side of the argument. To me that is an important part of why I started this blog. And that also goes for the other people that commented of course.
Tony // April 25, 2008 at 15:21
“…I really have heard quite a few gay people talk about ‘gay rights’.”
Sure, you’re right, but quite a few atheists can be caught saying “Oh my God!” and Bless you.” My point is that the use of the phrase is political spin. We all get caught up in the merry-go-round.
I’m quite happy to leave marriage to straight people. They make so much fuss about it and let’s not forget that the services and ceremonies originated in legal contracts between families and weddings in the church’s blessing of a carnal, and therefore sinful, act. Neither are based in the love between two people. I’ve been with my partner for thirty years. We’ve had a partnership for all those years. Following the Netherland’s leadership the rest of Europe followed. You have a right to feel proud of being part of the group that led us all there.
“On the “F” word. I don’t use the word, and I didn’t use it in my post.”
Oops! Sorry - but when the blood is boiling I get dyslexic! Nevertheless we do rather “put up” with straight people using it - just smile when you say it, OK? Do you use racist epithets with black friends, call your Jewish friends (I can’t even type the word!) or your wife a “C….” for laugh? No, of course not!
I just googled” Gay Lifestyle” again. Seems like it changes every day! Some people climb mountains, some play golf and some “ push the limits to shock the crap out of small-minded people.” I have no objection to small minded people. I don’t want to change them. If you persuade them about one thing it forces out something else. Their minds can only contain so much and it rather like stuffing a trash bag. Push something else in and it splits leaving tea leaves and used diapers on the carpet. Lets all go for ensuring that the Law is upheld.
As far as silly clothes… I’m being facetious here but what about “OK, give us our rights and we’ll stop doing it!” More seriously I’m going to tell a story but I’ll do it on my own blog - follow here
http://www.nobodysthere.com/blog/2008/04/25/and-we-all-thought-“this-is-how-it-should-be”/
and then come back
The whole point is that I’m NOT like you. One of the ways that I differ is that I enjoy being different. I actually celebrate that diversity.
People aren’t annoyed by the different lifestyle - but by the difference. I’m seen as spitting on their altar. They’ve had to behave in a specific way to fit in to their own community, give up the differences they have with their fellow Christians in order to attend a church, subdue their doubts in order to be one of the elect. Here am I being who I am, silly clothes on occasion as well, with none of my community telling me “Wear this, say this, think this… or else!”
“My question to you is; do you do that because you are gay and your genes are ‘forcing’ you to do that, or do you do that because you enjoy it and it fits the lifestyle you have chosen?”
I wear silly clothes (parades), sexy clothes (parties), formal clothes (funerals) appropriately, because it’s fun, because I enjoy it, because it shows respect… and that fits my lifestyle
If we want diversity we can’t achieve it by insisting on uniformity. I don’t want to catch flies - I want them to buzz off! Honey, vinegar or repellant? I shan’t even mention DDT.
You’re right, we can’t win them over. We can insist on the law being just!
“Gay” is a word that is taking on new meanings all the time. We used to speak of “honorary gays.” People who had the same political outlook as ourselves but just happened to be straight. Language evolves. The way you write about your own thoughts leads me to expect that you might even define yourself as “A Straight Gay Man.”
Think on it?
greymalkin // April 28, 2008 at 9:35
A Straight Gay Man… I’ve been told (by women) quite a few times that I’m in touch with my emotions and feelings like most women are… I’ve also been asked a number of times if I am gay, but so far I’ve never had feelings of lust, love or otherwise for a man, but in all honestly I would not freak out if that would ever happen. I’ve also not been offended by people asking me if I was gay, and if a man would ever express interest in me, I’d even be flattered.
On the “F” word… I have one of two “black” friends (hate that word) and they both use “negro” and don’t mind if I do (within jokes and gags). I’ve had a serious talk to both of them about it, and they even prefer it over “black”. But I rarely use it, just like I rarely use terms like “gay”. I mostly define people by either their actions or simply their name; “Jolanda”, “Cliff”, “Judith” etc etc. I don’t like ‘hateful’ words very much and generally really don’t use them in my daily language. And I think all racists and bigots should be shipped to a single deserted island and in about 50 years we’ll check in on how they are doing. Meanwhile the world will probably have become a more tolerant and fun place to live in.
I think we do have other idea’s when we use the word “marriage”. Unless I’m mistaken, the first thing you think of is the whole church thing, the first thing on my mind is certain rights. Being married (in the Netherlands) grants a couple certain rights non-married couples do not have. Luckily, there are other options for people who want these rights and don’t want to marry (like a partnership).
I totally agree with you that we need to insist that the law should be just. Sexual preference should not be something that defines ones rights. And it should stay that way.
And yes, you should wear whatever you like - I was just trying to get a discussion started about if it was wise (at this time) to dress extravagant in public during gay pride and such. I won’t touch your right to do it with a ten foot pole. Hell, I’ll even fight for your right to do so. And for the rights of my children to do so, so when they grow up they can not only become whatever they are (I don’t force my children towards certain professions; I try to enspire them to follow their own path), but also be themselves.
I also read the blog you posted. I enjoyed reading it. We can only hope more and more people will turn their backs towards gay-hating bogits, and even better; block their view and tell them to piss off.
sengdroma // April 29, 2008 at 19:53
Ok I am not fooled by no one. I understand the English Lang I am a Eng Grad with BA Honours.
Second all my comments are from conversations over the years that I have had with my “non straight” friends - does that make you feel better rather than the word “gay”.
Personally I really do not care either way but my friends do and so I have put their point of view across as they do not have access to this blog. They have asked for equal rights, funnily enough me as a straight female have never asked for equal rights - may be I should - I want the seat on the bus why should I stand up so an old person should sit down!!!
Also I am from England and believe me the C of E was not happy about gay marriage rights I remember the newspapers and the street protests. Mind you they are still not happy about women vicars either.
My husband used to be a commercial pilot and I well remember the stewards on many of the flights who were very very anti straight people, who would talk in a fake raised girl voice and cry at the drop of a hat. They also organised their rosters to be in Australia for the pride march and would all hold up their skimpy costumes in various colours and feathers down the back of the plane and on the crew bus. The passengers were not happy and it did nothing for their “cause” as many newspapers have run with the stories.
Sorry if I upset you.
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